Fantastic Fest 2018 Interview: Jeremy Saulnier and Macon Blair Talk Adapting HOLD THE DARK

Over the last few years, we’ve seen an incredible progression for cinematic collaborators Jeremy Saulnier and Macon Blair, from Blue Ruin to Green Room to their latest, Hold the Dark, which ambitiously adapts William Giraldi’s grisly and haunting novel set against the backdrop of the Alaskan wilderness. Starring Jeffrey Wright, Riley Keough, Alexander Skarsgård, and James Badge Dale, Hold the Dark is easily the biggest and boldest offering we’ve seen from Saulnier and Blair yet, delivering up a chilling psychological thriller unlike anything I’ve seen thus far this year.

Hold the Dark recently celebrated its US premiere at Fantastic Fest 2018, and while in attendance, Daily Dead had the opportunity to speak with both Blair and Saulnier about why they chose to adapt Giraldi’s novel for their latest project, challenging themselves as filmmakers throughout their careers, how essential Netflix was to getting the film made, and more.

Look for Hold the Dark exclusively on Netflix beginning Friday, September 28th.

So, what spoke to you about the novel, and what was your way into adapting the film?

Macon Blair: It was just being completely surprised by the book as I was reading it, and it did this great balancing act of being totally horrific and terrifying, and also kind of haunting and beautiful. So, I just responded to it as a reader, but was also eyeing it as something that could be adapted for a movie, specifically for Jeremy to make.

What was different about your collaborative relationship on this film, versus the other things that you guys have done? Was there more confidence this time because you guys have this rapport now after a few years of being in the trenches together?

Jeremy Saulnier: Confidence? No. I mean, we had just entered the industry and Blue Ruin was up for an award at the Independent Spirit Awards, and we had just wrapped Green Room. We were in L.A. together and he had mentioned it before via email, but then he actually said to me one day, "Hey, there's this novel that I had access to. It's for you. You should do this." I read it, and it was very exciting. As far as our collaboration goes, we've been doing stuff together since we were kids, and Macon to me has always been the writer.

I've written most of my material, bouncing ideas off of Macon and our friend Chris Sharpe and many other people that we collaborate with, but as they were writing these pretty great screenplays that were a little bit beyond our capability, I started writing as a very practical solution to, "No, we're gonna do shit we can afford. So, I'll write this half-assed screenplay and we'll just go make it." But it's finally a chance for Macon to really show his writing prowess, and the script that he adapted from William Giraldi's novel attracted all of the cast. My agents went nuts for it. It's such a unique piece of material.

When I get submissions, there's something missing in all of these sort of standard submissions, but this piece that Macon delivered, everyone was going crazy for it, because you don't see that very often. It's kinetic, it's elevated, it's high stakes. It has a lot of scope and scale, and it's also really artful and deep as far as the atmosphere. That's what I was attracted to, because I could definitely deliver that. Can I really translate the full depth and breadth of the novel? I don't know. But I can certainly be a vessel and translate my experience as a reader of the novel to the audience.

Macon was in touch with William Giraldi, the novelist. It was a very collaborative experience, and we would get some guidance once in a while. We had questions, so we wanted some answers. We found that, when we had the answers, he could guide us narratively and we could really direct the audience in a certain way, but we never wanted to actually spell things out. That was exciting for me, to keep it enigmatic and surprising.

Was there any concern before the cast was attached about getting a big enough budget for the movie?

Macon Blair: Always, yeah, but that's why Netflix proved to be the perfect partner for this movie, because it's not traditional. You have to shoot it out in the snow, and you need the helicopters and you need all this stuff, so it demands a certain amount of resources. But it's not like a four-quadrant film, either. It's challenging and it's difficult, and because they are down to take risks like that, they can fund it at an appropriate level. At the same time, the question as far as casting is not, "Who's a big enough draw in China to justify the budget?" like maybe some other movies do, but they're asking Jeremy, "Who do you want? Who's perfect for the story?" and he could answer that honestly and end up with the best ensemble for the story, but still have it be budgeted responsibly.

Can you talk about your approach to the violence in the movie? Obviously, you don't shy away from violence in the movie, but given the nature of this particular story, did you both have conversations about how you wanted the violence depicted?

Jeremy Saulnier: Not explicit, because Macon and I are on the same page, and he knows me more than anyone else as far as a collaborator. The same approach that we both had going in—and this has been our thing always—was that I don't tend to glorify it. The way I approach it is, "Is this serving a narrative purpose? Is this putting the audience through the wringer?" In this film especially, there's not a lot of high-five moments happening. It's oppressive, it's shocking. I think the payoff is not high fives, but it's audible gasps in a theater when it unfolds.

When I was reading the novel, it takes some very sharp turns and you're just taken aback. You're like, "Whoa. I didn't see that coming. What is happening?" You lean in, and you're like, "Okay, this is different than I thought it'd be." So I was just trying to make the violence analogous to how it serves the narrative in the novel and Macon's screenplay, and be oppressive and sort of enlist that survival instinct, so when you get through it, there's this elation of still being alive. That's the whole movie for me—it's not wrapped in a bow for you at the end. You just have to experience it, and having that full immersion and coming out of the other end is the payoff.

Macon Blair: With that big shoot-out set piece in the middle, the idea was to not do it as an action sequence where the good guys win, but have it be something that people are hoping would be over as soon as possible, and then not allowing it to be over. Having it take longer, having it be unrelenting and unforgiving and awkward and weird and not cool was kind of part of the design. You're very much with Core [Jeffrey Wright], hoping that this will all be over as soon as possible.

Jeremy Saulnier: The character of Core wasn't originally in that scene in the novel, either. The way that Macon integrated him into the scene was really masterful, and now the whole scene is through his eyes, and you sense his frustration and anger at the violence from Cheeon [Julian Black Antelope]. You feel like he's just exasperated and really just pissed off at this unnecessary act that has unfolded, and he's just yelling at him. I think that was really powerful as far as the simplicity of that exchange, and hopefully it speaks for the audience there.

There's been a natural progression with your films over the years from Blue Ruin to Green Room and with Hold the Dark as well. I'm curious for both of you, from your perspectives and looking at what you've been able to do together so far, was it conscious that, "Hey, this is the just the next logical step forward, and we're really gonna push ourselves in ways we haven't before?"

Macon Blair: From the writing, definitely. Knowing that it was something for Jeremy, I wanted to definitely stretch myself and try and do the best work possible, but it's also very surreal. To come from making our own little movies in high school and then to be like now, "Somebody's gonna pay for us to have a tank?" Just to have these opportunities afforded us, you really do step outside of yourself a lot and it's just like, "What the f--k is going on? This is insane." And you try and act like it's very normal and stoic and all cool, but then you go home and you're like, "Wow."

Jeremy Saulnier: We're still dealing with imposter syndrome, like, "When are they gonna pull back the curtain and expose us?" It’ll be like, "Oh no, no, no. You're on the wrong list. You have to go [laughs]."

Macon Blair: I couldn't agree more. It's shocking that we get to do what we do. But we're having to now settle into that. "Okay. We're filmmakers. We faked it until we made it, and now we have to continue the ruse, but with a little more confidence." Everything we did in this film was an expansion in scale and scope, and that was a huge challenge, but also, it's a dream come true, and we wanna keep doing that. If you stop pushing against things and trying to break down walls and barriers, I'm not sure what that feels like, if it's gonna be any better for you as a filmmaker. But I guess our strategy has always been to keep going up, up, and up until we shit the bed, and then go into another Blue Ruin scenario, where we take it back into the woods, make a movie, and then come back again.

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