Interview: Ian Hodgkinson and Michael Paszt on NAIL IN THE COFFIN: THE FALL AND RISE OF VAMPIRO

It’s been a banner year for wrestling documentaries, with the release of both You Cannot Kill David Arquette and Nail in the Coffin: The Fall and Rise of Vampiro. For the latter, documentarian Michael Paszt spent several years chronicling the life of  Ian Hodgkinson, aka Vampiro, following him during his time working with several companies in Mexico and here in the United States (you can read my review HERE).

Recently, Daily Dead had the opportunity to speak with both Hodgkinson and Paszt about their experiences collaborating together on Nail in the Coffin, and they discussed the process of making the documentary, Hodgkinson’s career, and the surprises that cropped up along the way.

Nail in the Coffin: The Fall and Rise of Vampiro is currently available to rent digitally or you can purchase it on Blu-ray as well.

Great to speak with you guys today. Ian, was there a catalyst that made you realize you were ready to tell your story, and pull back the curtain a little bit on your career and your life outside of the ring?

Ian Hodgkinson (Vampiro): No, I don't think so. I mean, I never thought about it like that. I think things happen for a reason. I was dealing with all the mental health stuff. I ran into Michael at the airport. If it wasn't for Michael, none of this would have happened. So it has nothing to do with me. It was all him who saw the big picture. I had no clue what was going on, so that's how it happened.

Michael, when did you realize that Ian would be somebody really interesting to follow, where you wanted to dive into the aspects of his life that most people didn't really know about before this documentary?

Michael Paszt: I think that I've always had a love of Lucha Libre and I knew Ian from years ago. When we reconnected and he told me what he was doing, I saw where he was at that point in his life. I just saw him in this moment with him and his daughter, and I thought, "Wow, this is just a fascinating story." I mean, Ian Vampiro is probably one of the most polarizing wrestlers in the business. Then, on top of that, when I saw him, he was commuting from Thunder Bay to Mexico City to Los Angeles, and then back again on a weekly basis, all because he had to be home Sunday night to have lunch ready for his daughter for school in the morning. And I was like, "Wow, that's a story right there."

What was the process for the documentary? How long had you guys been working on it?

Michael Paszt: It was about a two to three year process of filming. We were a very small crew, and the process was just following Ian around. One of the benefits of being a small crew was that we could move at a moment's notice, where we could go to Cancun or Mexico City or L.A. and things like that. The whole process took about three years, though.

Now, Ian for you, what I think is really interesting about this is obviously they talk a lot about your career in the ring, but you have such a fascinating story outside of the ring as well, producing shows and being the backstage guy and things like that more recently. As your career has evolved, do you feel a sense of pride when you are working shows and getting to see these guys go out and perform and seeing fans connect with them? Is it a different sense of satisfaction that you get from that versus the stuff you were able to do in the ring over the years?

Ian Hodgkinson (Vampiro): That's a great question, thank you. I felt the sense of pride producing, doing justice to the things I was taught by the older generation, because I joke around a lot, I'm very sarcastic, I lose track of my train of thought very quickly, just a million things. But all joking aside, when it comes down to the nuts and bolts and the dirty details and that last breath and that extra inch and those little things that mean absolutely nothing in the universe. Well, they mean everything to me because that's how I was taught. You can just see  the right ones to pass the torch to. So, that was one thing. But then of course, seeing them go out there, there was that moment.

So in Steve Jones' book, the guitar player from the Sex Pistols, he says there was a moment, and there's 18 seconds of video somewhere out in the world, I've also seen that, where the Sex Pistols are playing and he's leaning up against Johnny Rotten and they're in Sweden or someplace like that. He said at that moment, it was right when the band was becoming the Sex Pistols. He said that moment was the greatest moment in his musical career because it was at the end of innocence and it was at the beginning of the tsunami.

So when I see wrestlers in that position, they're just about to go onto their first TV match, but they're about to transition into an international icon. That gray area is when this is at its purest, like any other industry, right? So I've had that opportunity to see the magic happen, to see that look in their eyes, to see that energy, that vibration. So to be involved in something like that is moving, it's life changing. So I've been able to experience that and fortunately remember it. That's what I learned from all of this stuff and that's what I take from it all.

Michael, for you, you mentioned your own fandom for Lucha Libre and Vampiro and things like that. Was there anything surprising to you that you learned about this as you were working through this process and this documentary?

Michael Paszt: No, I don't think anything's surprising, per se. I think the coolest thing was the fact of how open everybody was, especially in Mexico and Vampiro helping open up those doors. In Mexico, they were really, really open and they opened the doors to us and they gave us full access. And I think for me, that was really, really cool.

Ian Hodgkinson (Vampiro): But Michael also spent this time in Mexico, too, as a journalist and as a fan. So he kind of knew how to maneuver the politics, right? Because getting into the wrestling in the back door, getting behind the scenes, getting the trust of guys in the dressing room, that doesn't happen. I don't care who you are, it just doesn't. So that was one of the things that's going to make this movie untouchable or unattainable as somebody else's success. Unless they purposely go out and it's a company who makes the movie about themselves.

We had access to things that you just don't get access to. It's like, you don't go to see Cirque de Solei or Chris Angel or one of these other [acts] in Las Vegas and they invite you backstage and they show you how to do all of the tricks, and then they go, "You can go film the show." We took people into the dressing room, into the hearts and soul of pro wrestling. So, what Michael was able to do, it hasn't been done by anybody else. And I don't think it's going to happen again. Not anytime soon, anyways.

Michael, when you were going through this process, were there themes or ideas or events that cropped up that you weren't expecting that came along, and maybe changed the narrative of this project along the way?

Michael Paszt: I guess for me, I didn't realize how damaged Ian was, because he hid a lot from me. That was the surprise for me as we got filming and got going, that at some point or another it comes out and that was a big surprise. When we were filming and having the lunch, he was hiding all this, where he wouldn't come out of the house. He had been hiding that he was hurt. That was a big [surprise] for me, but it eventually came out and it was just something we ended up talking about later on.

Ian, for you, how did Nail in the Coffin change things for you—if at all?

Ian Hodgkinson (Vampiro): The ending of the whole project was really the beginning of my life. I feel like I was dying and I think if I hadn't met Michael, and we hadn't started this project, I don't think I would have made it too much longer. I was on the end of the rope there. Health-wise and depression was winning the battle. The mental health stuff was out of control. And there was my physical health, too. I should be dead.

But I think the greatest thing that I've taken out of this is that there were people, I guess I was screaming loud enough that the universe sent the angels to me, right? I have people in my life now that are doing every single thing to support me to get better, with the intention of taking this recuperation and sharing that light with every single person who needs help in the world. We're doing major miracles, so that's what I got out of it. So all of it, Michael in his project here was a huge part of me still being alive. So that's what I got from it.

But I will say, the first time I saw that movie, I wanted to take Michael and throw him through a window. But not in a bad way. I wanted to do it with love and care because I wasn't there. When I say the word mature, I don't want you to think like I'm immature. I wasn't mature enough in my mind to understand that I needed to grow up and become an adult and stop thinking of me with my ego. So, when I first saw it, I told Michael I was devastated, but it wasn't for anything in particular. I was doing what every other person in my shoes do, is to point fingers and everybody is wrong except me, because there are certain things in that movie that provoked memories that I still can't handle. I'm not there yet.

But then over time, the more that I saw the movie, each time I see it, it's a different movie because I'm a different person and I’ve got nothing to do with that guy. But that guy is who I was. So I have everything to be thankful for. So what I've learned or done or been guided to do is show gratitude to where I came from.

If there's anything bad that's happened. It has one common denominator. For example, in my life, all my fucked-up relationships and bad things that have happened and my horrible education and bad food choices, all of that stuff. There's only one thing that's common, and it's because I was involved. They were my choices, even though they were shitty situations and they still affect me. I chose to have those people in my life. I chose to walk that path, so I suffered in pro wrestling a lot because, one, I wasn't guided, but, two, I wasn't brave enough to make the stand and do the right thing. I just went with the flow. If somebody has a job in an office, they don't give a shit about my feelings or your feelings, they're doing their job and if I get affected by decisions that they're forced to make, because of the position I have no right to think that person is bullying me. They're doing their job.

But I didn't look at it that way because my ego was out of check, right? I hate it and I don't want to say that word anymore. After this interview, I'm hoping I don't have to use it. I'm trying to reframe every single thing that I say and do better in life with my energy. But I hated wrestling because of the mistakes I made. I may sound bitter, but fuck, come on man, I'm in 20 different video games. I'm all over the fucking internet. I'm all over television. I'm not getting any money from it, but who gives a shit?

I came from nothing and I had a dream to change the landscape of pro wrestling. And I did it. I did it by myself and I did it without anyone's help. When I was Vampiro, the first month in Mexico, I was living on the fucking street. I stayed in the parking lot of a hotel. I didn't have money to pay for the room. I had two nights when I first got there and after that, I just started getting booked every single day, and then I had a place to stay. So, I owe every single thing I have to the pro wrestling industry and to the beautiful fan base that they have worldwide, because those people chose to believe in me. I haven't wrestled on TV in 20 years and the people still remember me. I am so blessed. I'm ashamed of myself for the way I reacted at the beginning when the movie came out and I was saying, “I hate wrestling and all this stuff.” This movie really helped me become a man in a lot of ways.